Liquid Hide Experiment Conclusion

The homemade match of liquid hide was a success after all.

Oh-Success-

This time I did a rubbed joint and left the glue to draw the wood onto each other, another words I let the glue do the clamping.  I let it sit for 12 hours. The glue on the surface was gummy as it should be. It’s a good practice to allow 24hours to cure, but I wanted to see the effectiveness of the homemade batch after 12 hours. The results were the glue won. It held up its end of the bargain doing its job perfectly. As you can see in the picture above the glue line is intact.

Some points to note before I wither away into my shop.

  • Hot Hide will dry hard relatively quickly on the surface, that has been my personal experience.
  • Liquid Hide will remain gummy on the surface for longer than 24hrs because of the urea, but will cure in the joint.
  • You can perform a rubbed joint with HH
  • You cannot perform a rubbed joint with LH (the pieces I used were very thin and even then I couldn’t do a proper rubbed joint)
  • You can glue an edge joint with HH straight off the plane
  • You cannot glue an edge joint with LH straight off the plane, the edge surface must be roughed up with some course grit paper.

I guess the last part is the most important bit of information about LH. The first test I did was a failure as it broke on the glue line without much effort. The reason being the surface was smooth off the plane.  I knew this would happen, but I thought maybe a home batch version would react differently and it didn’t.  I did write about this in Issue III.

The second test I roughed the edge with some 80 grit sandpaper, 120grit would work as well.  Obviously it was a success.

As you can see there are notable differences between Liquid Hide and Hot Hide. It would be better to use Hot hide over Liquid hide, but it’s also comforting to know that if you need that extra open time LH will do the job equally well.

 

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12 thoughts on “Liquid Hide Experiment Conclusion

  1. Hmmmm… a bit confusing.
    Here you compare HH and LH without clear definition of which is which. Part of my confusion is your previous post referring to first results with your homemade LH (it’s in the title).

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    1. Sorry my phone only gave me part of the message. True my original idea was only to talk about home made LH but I couldn’t help myself but compare between the two. It’s important to know the strengths and weaknesses between them.

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  2. Let me ask again… Which is which? When you say LH, are you referring to the homemade hide glue? …which has to be heated, i.e. Hot. If LH is the homemade stuff that has to be HOT when used, then what is the “Hot Hide” glue?

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    1. Ok, I understand what you’re asking. LH – Homemade (Heat in bottle to 140°F)
      HH – Mix granules with 1:1 water. Let it gel, then heat to 140°F
      The difference between the two is that LH is premixed hide with the added Urea to prolong open time. HH is as described above.
      To answer your second question LH with added urea cannot be used at room temperature, it must be heated to 140°F
      LH with added canning salt or pickle salt can be used at room temperature. This version of LH requires extensive experimentations to get it right because if you put more salt than required, the glue can take up to two years to cure as explained to me by Don Williams.

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  3. The salt is a much better option Bob according to Don. He claims that the Urea eventually, after many years will have adverse effects on the glue. However, the salt doesn’t and can be used at room temperature indefinitely, i.e. no shelf life. It’s worth the experiment.
    I’m not going to say that LH with Urea is a bad glue, no not at all. You can use it with the same confidence as HH its just that it will take a little longer to cure than HH. A full 24hours to be precise.

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    1. Salt being a more reliable option than urea might be where Joshua Klien got his recipe. See: https://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/blogs/blog/how-to-make-your-own-liquid-hide-glue

      By volume, it is very similar to your recipe, but using salt instead of urea. It too extends open time a bit. But, there’s not enough salt to keep it usable at room temperature. Still needs heating. My experience with Joshua’s recipe is like yours with urea. It needs a longer cure time, but appears to be as strong as hot hide glue without the salt.

      Let’s check back in a hundred years.

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      1. Lol, I’ll just start to get wrinkles then.
        In regards to salt, it is the opposite. If you put in too much then it can take a number of years to cure. Don said to start off with very small amounts and of course it depends on how big your batch is. The only heating required is for it to be in your hip pocket.

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      2. Right! We agree. A little bit, as with a little bit of urea, extends open time. More makes the glue more liquid, less needful of heat, and eventually not able to setup and harden.

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      3. I haven’t found that to be the case as mine when cold turns back to a gel state. Once heated though it’s liquid and at the right consistency. I do agree though the more Urea added the longer the cure time and the less gluing power it has.

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