Brass Glue Pot-Designed by Hank Levin

Above is an audio of the post below

You know my stance on hide glue; you know all the benefits of it; if not read my earlier posts on the topic.

I’ve been using Old brown glue or OBG as it’s known, it’s a liquid hide glue which again you all know what that is, it’s nothing in relation to Titebond’s liquid hide.  I’ve used Titebond Liquid Hide once and never again due to glue failure, OBG is the real deal, its real animal hide glue of 192-gram strength and has never failed not once.  Unfortunately, it’s only available from one seller in Australia and it isn’t cheap.  It costs me about $60 including shipping for a 20-ounce bottle, and if I were to purchase it from the States, add another 15 to $20.  Comparing to PVA which costs only 5 to $6 it’s not what you would call cheap as chips.  However, that doesn’t deter me from using animal hide glue but, I have been looking for a cheaper alternative and that would be making my own.

I would go through a 20-ounce bottle within 3 to 4 months in the past, so the 18 months’ expiry date never bothered me.  Now that I no longer woodwork as a business per say, a 5 ounce bottle would suffice 6 months probably longer.  I have been looking for a cheaper alternative by mixing my own batch, plus the tack time will be quicker.

So I hunted on eBay for a glue pot.  Knowing that antique glue pots if rusted on the inside are worthless, or if dropped can have a hair line crack that isn’t noticeable which, also renders them worthless, and knowing that some antique dealers on eBay are either clueless or just can’t be trusted, is a gamble I just wasn’t willing to take.  Besides I really needed something small that I could mix a small batch and use it all then and there.  No point in making a lot of glue that will end up going off and then throwing it away is just false economy.

By chance after almost giving up on the chase, I stumbled upon this beautiful brass glue pot by Hank Levin from   When I saw it I fell in love, literally my heart wanted it and it was the perfect size, much like what Lee Valley is selling however, 1000 times more beautiful and it’s entirely handmade from brass, which means no rust, ever.


Hank is a Luthier since the 1960’s from New York who specialises in building and repairing musical instruments.  As a Luthier, he doesn’t need a lot of glue, prior to Hank developing this pot, Hank would end up throwing a lot of glue away after a few days of not using it, even though he kept it in the fridge, he couldn’t afford to take the risk of using it for the fear of glue failure.

When you make high class expensive precision instruments, you simply cannot afford the risk of glue failure which forced Hank, to come up with a design that would suit his purpose, hence; the birth of the Brass glue pot.


The inner sleeve is heavily tapered and for good reason, this you will not find in any other glue pot, it’s sheer brilliance!


When the glue dries out a shell is formed and when it does, it shrinks. Because of this heavy taper and its smooth surface bottom, this dried shell can be plucked out in tact as Hank calls it with your fingers or using some wooden stick, which means you can use it again if it hasn’t spoiled by crushing it up.

Patrick Edwards has on his website how to dry and store your glue, but since this is such a small amount, you really wouldn’t bother.   Hank also suggest never to use abrasives like steel wool on polishing the brass.  As an optional purchase Hank also offer a warmer, once you heat the pot on the stove to the right temperature you place the pot on the warmer and it will maintain that 140 degrees Fahrenheit for however long you need it too.  A metal brush is also supplied but I like to use my own.

Having dealt with a lot of businesses I have never honestly dealt with a man with such high integrity, and I believe this integrity can only come from a high calibre craftsman.  Craftsmen who take pride in their work reflects in their business dealings with people.

After a couple of weeks into my purchase, I wrote to Hank requesting for a tracking number.  This man called me personally from the States worried because he couldn’t locate a tracking number for me and said, he will send me another pot.  Knowing that it’s only been two weeks I wasn’t perturbed at all and rejected his offer.  However, this touched me, the fact that he called which is something I have not experienced from any other business in the past, be that from the US or from Australia and believe me, Australian businesses have a lot to learn about customer service. The fact that he wanted to send me another pot just proved to me that this level of honesty and due care, can only come from a craftsman artisan.  He didn’t say would you like me to send you one, or, if it doesn’t come in two weeks’ time, I’ll just send you one. He said I’m going to send you another pot.  That is incredible service.!

I love my little glue pot, it’s not only a work of art, but an inspiration to me, because every time I look at it, it reminds me to take extra care in my work.  All that’s left now is to buy the granules from Patrick Edwards, which is directly from Milligan and Higgins.  Currently Patrick is offering 6 pounds on eBay or from for $50, so you pay for 5 pounds and get 1 pound free.  The shipping on eBay is more than double than it is directly from his website, I’m not sure why.

Animal protein glue continued

I feel like I’ve only just scratched the surface on this topic which prompted me to add further notes, however I am aware that most people would rather view than read but unfortunately I do not have a professional studio setup with cameramen to aid me so we’ll just have to do it the old fashioned way and read.

Protein glues are made by cooking protein for lengthy time, you could put a soup bone in your soup and cook it for too long and your soup will turn into glue.  You have fish glue, rabbit skin glue, bone and hide glue.  Fish glue is the only one that is liquid in room temperature but is not as strong as a mixture of bone and hide glue but OBG is not made out of fish glue.  Rabbit skin glue is used by guilders to apply gold leaf to their furniture, this type of glue must be diluted quite a bit.  Bone and hide is mixed 2/3 to 1/3 to make good furniture glue and are measured in gram strength, this measurement is taken by pushing a tool into the dried glue.  The gram’s strength varies from 100 – 500, 135 gram strength is used to make chip glass, 192 is a good compromise and most commonly used for furniture in terms of medium setting.  The higher the strength the faster it sets and the more brittle it is.

The beauty of animal protein glue is that it can be used over and over again, be it 1000 or 5000 years old you just reheat it and use it again, I don’t know of any modern day product that can be used multiple times and in a single year let alone 1000 years from now.

In the old days they sold the glue in cakes and would also have the makers stamp on it, to cure it they would put it on a wire mesh so as not to let it get mouldy so they would let it dry hard on a screen so they could later sell it.

Marquetry and veneering cannot be performed with modern day glues, yes they can be glued with modern day glues but they rarely last for very long and so hide glue is the only glue that is used in veneering and marquetry.

I have only ever used liquid hide OBG and Titebond after experiencing the two my preference goes to OBG, on the other hand I have never cooked my own glue.  This is an area I would love to explore as OBG is getting far too expensive living so far away from the source.  I offered to you a recipe from Don Williams on making your own liquid hide glue with no spoil date.  I have written to Patrick Edwards about this but he hasn’t responded.

It may seem medieval to some to resort to what may seem like primitive methods of gluing two sticks together and even some what cumbersome to make when readily available modern day glue off the shelf works perfectly fine.  All be it I believe it is the perfect choice for gluing timber and without repeating all the benefits of using animal protein glue please refer to the first article but in terms of cumbersome or time consummation of making the glue I believe the time difference between making it or using PVA or yellow glue actually consumes the same amount of time.  HA???? How you may wonder.  To clean up modern day glue properly takes more time than it does to make Hide glue.  I did say they are on par here but after thinking about it I figured it actually takes longer to clean up the mess.  With hide glue you can wash it off which only takes minutes but with PVA or yellow glue washing it off after it has dried is not possible and you can’t get a chisel in those tight spaces without risking digging into your furniture piece.  So in hind sight it makes perfectly good sense to incorporate hide glue in your everyday woodworking.

I believe this now concludes what I know about animal protein glues, I’m sure there is more information out there on the net if your still eager to know more about it.   All I need to do now is figure out where I can purchase 25kg bags of the stuff.

Hide Glue

Animal Glue also known as hide glue or protein glue has been around since the Neanderthals, no they weren’t making furniture but instead they used it to protect their painting from moisture.  There is also written evidence found around 2000 BC the Egyptians were using hide glue.  This glue was found on their caskets and furniture in the Pharaohs tombs.  The Greeks and Romans also used animal and fish glue for their Marquetry and veneering, Chinese and even American Indians were found to use hide glue.

Animal Hide Glue is made from, well, animals, skin, tissues, bones (hoof, teeth etc.) what type of animal well mostly horses that were going to be put down.  Other animals include rabbit, fish and Ox

Hide glue comes in a granular form, flakes and flat sheets which do have an indefinite shelf life if kept dry.


To use it you must first dissolve it in water, then heat it in a glue pot be it over fire or an electric stove to about 140F (60c) but no more than 180F and you cannot boil it as high temperature will destroy the glue strength.  You must work quickly which is a disadvantage as the temperature drops the glue starts to set.  The open time will vary on the gram strength which range from 120-250, the latter having the shortest open time and I believe it to be around a minute.  I have a PVA glue that has an open time around 2 mins which comes in very handy when you need to glue some small parts and you cannot clamp it, it takes 4 hours to cure which is pretty bloody awesome.  Hide glue takes anywhere from 12-24 hours to cure which is pretty much standard for most glues on the market.

As I said above hide glue starts to set as it cools down and begins to cure as the water evaporates from it, hide glue will not cure if it is soaked.  Why would you soak it? Beats me.


Patrick Edwards who is a scientist by profession but now known for the last 30 or 40 as a respected antique furniture restorer who does many jobs for the Smithsonian developed the OBG (Old Brown Glue) which is hide glue with a gram strength now honestly I can’t remember whether it’s 192 or 250 that can be used at room temperature and has an open time of 30 mins.  This was made possible by adding urea, now Urea isn’t a new invention, woodworkers discovered back in the 19th century if you add Urea to the mix it would extend the open time and keep it in a liquid state but back to OBG.  OBG has a shelf life of 18 months from its creation date so you’d hope it hasn’t been sitting on the store shelves for too long.  It can be frozen to prolong its shelf life and it does not affect its qualities.  18 months is pretty darn good as no other glue including Titebond’s Liquid Hide Glue can make that claim.  All glues except for OBG has a shelf life of up to 12months.

OBG gluing strength is equivalent to hot hide glue.  Knowing that OBG is equivalent to hot hide and I use the term hot in reference to using a glue pot eliminates the need of having to use a glue pot but for the sake of tradition and expense using a glue pot is a better option if you are going to be making a lot of furniture, clocks whatever everyday as it is pricey in this country to buy OBG.  Of course it’s a lot cheaper in the US, everything seems to be cheaper in the US not sure why the yanks are so tight with their money, try living in Australia then you’ll see what expensive really is. Anyway shooting my mouth off again, the process is the same you still need to heat it up but not in a glue pot but using hot tap water instead.  If your boiler doesn’t heat your water to 140F up to and no more than 180F which mine doesn’t I boil the water in a kettle and mix some cold water and pour it in a jar which I’ll monitor the temperature using a thermometer used for cooking and then place the bottle inside the jar.  I purchased a small empty bottle which I use and store the large bottle in my freezes and top it up as I need to.

Hide glue is not a gap filler so if you suck at making good tight joints I wouldn’t recommend using it, the reasons are because of the drying process.  As I said above hide glue cures by losing its moisture if the joint has gaps then the moisture in the glue doesn’t evaporate and won’t fully cure it will remain gummy due to the moisture in the air.  However, if the joints are tight then the wood absorbs the moisture and the glue dries hard.

When it dries it dark but clear and yes it will darken more over time but obviously you won’t see that, if you’re a messy woodworker no problem you can leave it on which you wouldn’t but you can as it does not affect any finishes unlike every other glue on the market that will, or you simply scrape it off or yes wash it off.  Just by applying a damp cloth it will come straight off again no other glue including titebond liquid hide can make that claim.  In fact, titebond say’s in their fact sheet if you apply a few drops of water it will weaken the bond, also titebond say’s in their safety sheet not to get glue on your skin as it will cause irritation and so forth.  Not so with true hide glue, with hide glue you can cover your hands in it.  It will be very sticky and uncomfortable but it simply washes off with water, no soap nor turps or industrial soap required, just plain old water will do it.

Lastly you reverse protein glue by adding moisture and heat to it.

Hide glue is also known to set on itself by performing a rubbed joint, so when edge gluing you apply glue on both edges.  You rub the edges against each other until it tacks and then set it and leave it to dry without clamps.  As it starts to dry the glue will pull into itself forming a tight gap free joint.  Hard to believe but it’s been done like that since the 16th century when furniture making begun as a craft.

You may be wondering just how strong is it, well I can tell you I build all my clocks, furniture and now I’m starting boxes and none of them have come back.  I’ve even glued as test piece a mitered corner joint, I’m still yet to break it apart.  Maybe I’m a weakling but I tried to break the joint and couldn’t do so and remember that’s end grain gluing.  The trick to this is simple, you apply glue to both mating pieces then allow the end grain to soak up what it can and let the rest dry a little to form a thin film.  Then you apply some more glue and mate the pieces immediately together without any waiting.  Clamp it and walk away and the next day it should not come apart.

To tell how you know hide glue in particular the liquid hide and not titebond but OBG has deteriorated.  There are some signs to look for, if you know the expiry date is up it doesn’t mean that it’s useless as OBG hide glue has been known to last 2 years but everything has an end so here are the signs.

The proteins break down and the glue becomes very runny at normal room temperature, there is a foul odorous smell and mould begins to form.   If any of these things occur its time to chuck out your bottle and buy a new one.  There’s no point in keeping it even if it’s ¾ full, like Chris Schwarz said without glue you’ve got nothing but a pile of wood sticks or something along those lines.

If you don’t want to purchase OBG you can make it yourself.  But you would need a glue pot, hide glue and salt.  To save me writing anymore than I need to here is an extract from Don Williams, senior furniture conservator at the Smithsonian’s Museum Conservation Institute.

To make a batch of liquid hide glue takes about three minutes of active work, according to Williams, but it’s three minutes spread over a 48-hour period. And you don’t need anything special in addition to the hide glue – except table salt.

To begin, you have to make hot hide glue. I’m sure if you have yet to purchase a glue pot (a special pot for making and reheating hot hide glue), you’re not of the mind to do so for this single purpose. You don’t have to. You can use an electric hot plate, a saucepan, a small glass jar and a small amount of hide glue flakes or pearls, along with salt.

Here are the steps:  The first day, mix two parts hide glue flakes with three parts water into the jar and let everything soak. The following morning, heat water in the saucepan to a temperature of 140º F (a thermometer helps with accuracy), add in one-part salt to the jar then cook everything for about two hours. Next, immediately stick the cooked mixture into your refrigerator for the balance of the day (quick cooling is key).

On morning three, fire up the burner and cook the mixture for another two hours (Williams always cooks the glue twice). Once the batch cooks the second time, you have liquid hide glue.  Williams adds that he seldom makes more than a pint of glue at a time. He pours it into a plastic ketchup or mustard squeeze bottle for easy dispensing.

And here is the most interesting part of home-made liquid hide glue: The salt makes this product stay liquid at room temperature and salt preserves the glue so there is no spoil date – just as salt has done throughout time in salting meat.

Hide glue has been used for thousands of years and yes it has stood the test of time the tombs are filled with furniture and caskets still held together with hide glue.  It wasn’t until WWII when they decided they needed to make glue that didn’t involve a lengthy setup process and hence PVA was invented.  Yes modern day glues are very strong in fact so strong that you will break the wood and not the glue joint but they are not reversible.  What does that mean to you though, probably nothing.  If you want someone in 150 or more years to repair your now antique then hell yes it means something.  It means something to someone and it should mean something to you as a craftsman.  I as a craftsman who works solely with hand tools care enough to what I put on the things I make from the finishes down to the glue.  On the other hand I’m a traditionalist, I tend to follow what they did 300 years ago.  Why because it works, it wasn’t broken then but we broke it today due to the unnecessary war we had and the wars we still have, due to mass production, higher profits, bigger demands it must get done yesterday.  Hide glue has proven itself but you and I will not see if PVA will prove itself, Maybe it will or won’t only time will tell but I am sure glad that there are companies out there who still produce hide glue and I’m glad that there are thousands of craftsman probably millions around the world who have created a demand for such products to be made available.

That’s all folks hope you learned something new or refreshed old memories.  No matter what you use, use it well and enjoy your craft.

Till next time